Pia R.

asked • 09/05/16

projectile problem

a stone is thrown vertically upward. given elevation of 50 m and initial velocity of 15 m/s
 
find:
 
a)maximum height
b) time it took to reach maximum height
c)velocity before it hits ground
d)time total stone is in air
 
 
need help pls

2 Answers By Expert Tutors

By:

Pia R.

i dont understand why I followed u and I got -75 sec for d. and by the way, why do we still use negative acceleration for the ball when its just going down.meaning from max height to down?
 btw i used 0-50 = 1/2 (15+35) t and got -75
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09/05/16

Steven W.

tutor
I got basically the same magnitude of velocity for Part c.  I think I see exactly the problem, and it has to do with the note I made after Part c, about using that particular equation to solve for v (or vo).  Remember that the velocity as it is about to hit the ground is down, so, when you take the square root in Part c to solve for v, you need to choose the correct sign for the square root, based on your knowledge of the physical situation.  I think that will fix your calculation problem.
 
The reason the acceleration of the ball is still negative when it is coming down is that gravity -- which is, by definition,  the only acceleration in projectile motion problems -- always points downward, which we defined to be negative.  Gravitational acceleration always points downward regardless of which way the projectile is moving.
 
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09/05/16

Pia R.

so when would acceleration due to gravity be positive?
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09/05/16

Steven W.

tutor
All you would have to do is define downward as positive.  There is nothing wrong with this, as long as you are consistent that anything down is positive.  In projectile problems, gravity is a constant acceleration, in both magnitude and direction, and the direction is down.
 
When you work projectile  problems, you can make any direction you want positive or negative, and you can even change from part to part, if you want.  You could define up as positive for Part a, and then down as positive for Parts b, c, and d.  As long as you are consistent within each calculation, and transfer the numbers accurately from one part to another with whatever changes you decide, you will get the same result no matter which definitions of positive and negative you make.
 
However, I always find it more comfortable to select one definition at the start of the problem, and use it consistently.  In my experience, that makes it less likely to lose a sign between parts.  So I defined down as negative in the first part, and then kept down as negative throughout.  That made gravity, which always points down, always in the negative direction.
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09/05/16

Steven W.

tutor
And the velocity in Part C would also be negative, indicating the ball is moving down as it is about to hit the ground.  You get the negative by choosing the negative square root when solving for v in Part c, because you know the velocity has to be down, which is negative.
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09/05/16

Pia R.

yeah but howcome i got -75 for time for part c? i think time couldnt be -
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09/05/16

Pia R.

*part d i mean
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09/05/16

Steven W.

tutor
Because, when you substituted the velocity from Part c into Part d, you made it positive instead of negative.  It should be:
 
0-50 = 1/2 (15+(-35)) t --> -50 = (1/2)(15-35)t
 
This will cancel out the negative, and give you a positive result for time, as you would expect to have.
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09/05/16

Pia R.

you make it negative cause the ball is going down, right?
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09/05/16

Steven W.

tutor
Yes,  exactly, it is going down, and down as negative as I defined it.
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09/05/16

Steven W.

tutor
Is negative
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09/05/16

Steven W.

tutor
So, solving for the final velocity with that particular kinematic equation in Part c, you have the choice of taking the positive square root or the negative square root when you solve, and you use the knowledge of which way the ball is going and how that matches your definition of the signs if direction to choose, in this case, the negative square root for Part c. 
 
And since we keep the same sign definition for Part d, when we enter the Part c answer, we make sure to keep the correct sign with it to get an accurate answer for Part d. 
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09/05/16

Pia R.

why is the answer for c 35 and not -15 cause when i use the formula vf=vi+at, i end up having vf=0+(-10)(1.5) = -15
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09/05/16

Steven W.

tutor
It looks like, if you are starting with that equation and those values, you are starting from when the projectile is at its maximum height.  In this case, 1.5 s is not the time it takes to come to the ground (x = 0).  It would be the time it takes to return to its original height at 50 m above x = 0.  But Part c asks for the time to come to x = 0, which would be longer.
 
This is why I think it is best with these problems to work with only one equation.  As long as you are in a situation where the acceleration is not changing (as is the case for a projectile for the entire time it is in the air), you can deal with the situation with one kinematic equation with three kinematic quantities known and one to find.  I've found that, in general, setting up multiple equations and stitching together a total time, for example, out of multiple parts often quickly leads to getting "in the weeds."
 
With Part c as I did it before, there is one equation, and all the quantities have been given in the problem, which is the most direct way to this solution, in my opinion.
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09/05/16

Steven W.

tutor
Oops, I meant "Part c asks for the velocity at x = 0, which would be greater, since it has fallen for a longer time and had a chance to gain speed to -35 m/s."
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09/05/16

Peter D. answered • 09/05/16

Tutor
4.9 (112)

PhysicsPhD/MathBS -- expert with recent teaching and tutoring exp.

Pia R.

for d do you mean 35=15 -10t t=-2 then t=-2+1.5??
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09/05/16

Peter D.

Hi Pia:
In d), the coordinate system is assumed down, so, since the acceleration is always down,
g is positive. So, if 35 is correct, then do
35 = 15 + 10t
Then add 2X the result in b).
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09/05/16

Peter D.

in b)
0 = 15 - 10t
-> t = 1.5s
2X1.5s = 3s (time to go up and back)
in d)
35 = 15 + 10t
t = 2
2+3 = 5s
is the total time to go up from 50m and down to the ground.
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09/05/16

Pia R.

ok so 3 seconds is the time from 50m back to 50 m? and then 50m to 0m is 2?
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09/05/16

Peter D.

yup!
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09/05/16

Pia R.

why is the answer for c 35 and not -15 cause when i use the formula vf=vi+at, i end up having vf=0+(-10)(1.5) = -15
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09/05/16

Peter D.

I would be happy to give you an hour tutoring session if you want to continue with this and other problems.
Regards,
Peter
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09/05/16

Tish M.

You said vertical problems always use gravity for acceleration. How would you handle it if the problem says it accelerates with a constant upward acceleration of 2 meters per second squared?
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06/26/17

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