Walter B.

asked • 08/05/16

Determining Travel Time Across Multiple Sections

I need to know how to calculate the total time traveled by a vehicle traveling in a straight line split in 3 sections. First section is 6.1 ft, second 6.2 ft and third 24.1 ft. The vehicle has a max speed of 660 feet/min and acceleration rate of 5133.33 feet per squared minute and deceleration rate of -13933.3 feet per squared minute. The initial velocity = 0 and the end velocity = 0.  The equipment never reaches max speed so it must accelerate until it needs to decelerate (slow down) as to not overshoot the destination. I need to know how to calculate the time for each section.  Based on what I think I know the equipment will accelerate into the 3rd section before it needs to slow down.  I can calculate using the entire distance and I get a result of .1393 minutes traveled but I need to be able to break this down by section.
 
 
 

Steven W.

tutor
Hi Walter!

In physics, this kind of problem is called kinematics, and we can use kinematic equations to solve it. The key fact about kinematics is that its equations are only valid over a period of constant acceleration. If the acceleration changes, we have to reset the equations to reflect that. So we have to be able to divide the motion up into segments of constant acceleration.

It looks like your problem is set up for that, with the three segments of distance.  Often in these problems, each segment will have a different acceleration.  But I have tried a couple different possibilities, and I have not gotten results consistent with the given information.
 
So I wanted to ask: do we know any more, in this problem, about the distance over which the car is accelerating, decelerating, and -- if applicable -- traveling at constant speed?  Or is it supposed to be doing that in some unknown intervals whose total length adds up to 36.4 ft?  If you can let me know, I can try to help you out more, but I want to be sure how the parameters of the problem have been set.
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08/05/16

David F.

Hi Steven W.
 
I like your explanation and agree that more information is needed to solve the problem.
 
The problem doesn't state in which section or sections the vehicle is accelerating presumably 
at max. acceleration and in which section or sections the vehicle is de-accelerating presumably
at max. de-acceleration.
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08/05/16

Walter B.

Hi and thanks for your response.  The problem for me is that because of the distance the equipment never reaches constant speed so it must accelerate over the segments until it needs to decelerate as to not overshoot the end location.  Let me know if I need to explain more.
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08/05/16

Sanhita M.

Hi Walter
I made assumptions to satisfy the condition that the vehicle must accelerate over the segments until it needs to decelerate as to not overshoot the end location. Thus I had to break the entire time range to smaller segments or limits. You may find that maximum velocity is a limiting value depending on which the time has been calculated. Thus, at the end of calculating time required to travel a section of three sections, the limiting condition of time has been checked w.r.t. the limit derived depending on maximum velocity. Since the problem did not mention that the vehicle comes to rest, i.e., end velocity the moment it finishes travelling the third section, the end velocity has not been considered in calculating time(s) of travel. Besides, the intermittent limit checks shows that the vehicle travels third section before reaching maximum velocity. 
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08/05/16

Walter B.

Hi Sanhita, I did mention in the question that the start and end velocity is 0.  I only mentioned the max speed of the vehicle to point out that based on the distance the equipment will never reach max speed therefore it is only accelerating and decelerating throughout the travel.  So based on the vehicle start with a velocity of 0 and by the time it reaches the second and third sections what calculations would I use to determine these times based on the fact that the entire time if not considering sections is .1393 minutes.  Below is what I used to calculate the travel time using the entire distance.
 
// Calculate the distance that can be traveled while accelerating
float accelNonMaxDistance = -2 * (DecelRate) * maxDistance / ((2 * AccelRate) - (2 * DecelRate));

// Calculate the travel time using acceleration and deceleration time
travelTime = (float)Math.Sqrt(2 * (accelNonMaxDistance / AccelRate)) +
(float)Math.Sqrt((2 * (maxDistance - accelNonMaxDistance) /
(-1 * DecelRate)));
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08/05/16

Sanhita M.

The limiting values and limit checks tends to more accurate result. That is what i did in my answer..
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08/05/16

Walter B.

Hi Sanhita, I'm not sure what you mean by limiting values and limit checks?  Can you explain that?
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08/05/16

3 Answers By Expert Tutors

By:

Walter B.

Thanks Steven this is AWESOME!  The total of all three match my final result which is what I was looking for.  I will take some time to walk through each especially the last travel and get back to you.  I do have one question before I look into this.  How can I keep the final travel from exceeding the max speed?
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08/05/16

Steven W.

tutor
If I understand correctly, I would say just calculate what distance would be required, starting at velocity=0 and accelerating at 5133.33 ft/min2, to reach 660 ft/min, and make sure not to accelerate for that long a distance. Just let me know if you would lime to talk more about it!
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08/05/16

Walter B.

Ok will do thanks!
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08/05/16

Walter B.

Hi Steven, is there another way to determine the final acceleration and deceleration times at end of travel(last travel section)?  The problem I'm having when coding this is that I could have one to many travel segments so I'm not sure when to determine these distances because it does not necessarily have to be within the last section.  I hope that makes sense.  I guess I need this to be more flexible.  Can we discuss more?
 
Thanks
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08/12/16

Sanhita M. answered • 08/05/16

Tutor
4.7 (11)

Mathematics and Geology

Steven W.

tutor
This is a very clever solution, although it does assume that the vehicle will accelerate until it reaches its maximum speed... which, as you found, it never does.  In that case, the only reason we would have to know the maximum speed is to know that it never gets reached, and the deceleration value is not needed at all.
 
Perhaps that is the way the problem is meant to be, but it seems odd.
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08/05/16

Steven W.

tutor
I mean, it does not reach its maximum speed over the total 36.4 ft specified in the problem.
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08/05/16

Sanhita M.

 There are many oddities in the problem statement. The quantity of deceleration has been given with negative sign. I am not sure if in the course of reaching solution one would have require to use the deceleration then would she subtract the negative quantity from initial velocity, thus ultimately adds up to initial velocity or would she ignore the dimension and would just subtract the value? Probably the problem states of negative deceleration, i.e., acceleration.   
Too many assumptions in the solution points to the information gaps in statement of the given problem. Probably the examiner would like to see the statements of assumptions by the students. 
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08/05/16

Steven W.

tutor
I agree about the gaps in the problem statement, which is why I think we would need more information before stating anything definitive.  A solution with significant assumptions that are not stated in the problem could confuse the student.
 
By the way, in physics, acceleration (being a vector) has direction, as well as magnitude.  A negative acceleration simply means an acceleration that points in the negative direction.  If we take the vehicle to be moving in the positive direction, then a negative acceleration points opposite the direction of the velocity (i.e. the direction of motion).  Whenever acceleration points opposite the direction of motion, that corresponds to slowing down (which is sometimes called deceleration).
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08/05/16

Steven W.

tutor
Also, as you may know, you can just insert it with the negative sign into the kinematic equations, and it will work out, since those are vector equations to begin with.
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08/05/16

Sanhita M.

The sign of a vector quantity describes its direction, too. All i meant with negative deceleration that the problem statement speaks ambiguously. The negative sign of the value of deceleration makes the deceleration its opposite, hence acceleration. Therefore the vehicle never slows down. 
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08/05/16

Steven W.

tutor
Oh, I see.  Yes, that is another ambiguity.  More information is definitely needed.
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08/05/16

Walter B.

Thanks for your response.  I have updated my question and responded to the ambiguity I hope.  One more thing to clear up about the deceleration rate being negative.  In the formula to calculate time for deceleration I merely multiply the decel rate by -1 since time cannot be negative.  I also have a screen shot outlying my steps to calculate this using the entire distance but don't see a place on here to upload it.  Anything else I can do to get this answered please let me know.
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08/05/16

Steven W.

tutor
Thanks, Walter.  I will take a shot at it now.  By the way, this is one reason I dislike the term "deceleration" in physics.  It is a superfluous and confusing word, since it is just another acceleration that happens to slow an object down.  Not a problem with what you put up, just a pet peeve of mine. :)
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08/05/16

Walter B.

No problem from my reading i see the term does cause confusion.  Thanks for your help.
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08/05/16

Steven W.

tutor
I had a good portion of a solution all ready to go, but I had to leave it for a few minutes, and it mysterious got erased.  But I will recreate it, and have it up soon.
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08/05/16

Walter B.

Ok Steve Thanks!
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08/05/16

David F. answered • 08/05/16

Tutor
5 (2)

Math Wiz from MIT

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