
ETHEL L.
asked 01/01/22Primary 5 (11 yo) Math Question
There are 4 times as many red buttons as blue buttons. After removing 415 red buttons and 46 blue buttons, the number of blue buttons is 3 times as much as red buttons. Find the number of red buttons initially.
Help to do step by step and labelled working (no algebra or complicated equation as this is for a primary 5 kid) ! Thank you !
2 Answers By Expert Tutors

Anna H. answered 01/03/22
Anna H. Math and Chinese Tutoring
Use a bar to represent the total of red buttons initially.
Divide the bar into 4 even parts, then one part is equal to the total of blue buttons initially.
Remove 46 from the total of blue buttons, 415 from the total of red buttons, according to what are given, we have the following relationship:
Add three "415" parts together in another graph. You can find
3 x 415 - 46 is 11 times of the total of blue buttons.
Therefore, total of blue button = (3 x 415 -46)/11 = 109.
Then, total of red buttons = 4 x 109 = 436.
ETHEL L.
hi anna h. ! yes this is indeed the answer ! thank you for helping out :-)01/03/22
Tom K. answered 01/01/22
Knowledgeable and Friendly Math and Statistics Tutor
This way is more complicated than using algebra, but I hope it is something that might be appropriate for this level of student.
If we remove 46 blue buttons, for the red buttons to still be 4 times as much, we would need to remove 4 * 46 = 184
However, we remove 415, or 415 - 184 = 231 more.
By removing 231 extra reds, we go from having 4 times as much to 3 times as much. This means that we removed an amount extra equal to the number of blues at this point.
Thus, we end with 231 blues.
Then, we started with 231 + 46 = 277 blues, and 4 * 277 = 1108 reds.
As a check, 1108 - 415 = 693
277 - 46 = 231
231 * 3 = 693
If we are using one variable algebra, we would say
red = 4 blue
4 blue - 415 = (blue - 46) * 3
4 blue - 415 = 3 blue - 138
1 blue = 415 - 138
blue = 277
red = 4 blue = 1108
ETHEL L.
hi tom ! your answer: 1108 red buttons initially is actually incorrect (according to the answer key). i am quite confused with your first method (i drew out models) so i cant really figure out what went wrong. but for your one variable algebra method, there was a mistake in the 2nd step (4.blue - 415 = (blue - 46) * 3 ). this is incorrect as if u take a look at the qn again, the blue buttons is 3 times as much as the red buttons, so blue buttons is 3 times more than that of red buttons and the 2nd line should be corrected to -> 3*(4 blue - 415) = blue - 46 -> after working out the subsequent steps, the correct answer should be 463 red beads initially. i was confused with the answer key at first too but i figured it out already ! really appreciate u for helping out though ! :-)01/01/22

Mark M.
ETHEL L.: Tom K.'s thought solution while complex is based on rules of proportions. The second line of his equation is correct r - 415 = 3(b - 46). IMHO this problem is inappropriate the the 5th grade. Whatever the learning objective it could have been achieved without such convolutions.01/01/22

Anna H.
The correct answer is 436. This problem can be solved without using algebra knowledge. I solved it by drawing graphs. But, I could upload graphs in comments, so, if you would like to see how to solve this question without Algebra equations, please give me your email, so that I can email you my solution.01/03/22
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Anna H.
You can use graph to solve this problem. Many algebra word problems can be solved without using Algebra by drawing graphs. The number of red buttons initially is 436. I don't know how to upload my drawing here, if you want to know how I solve it without Algebra knowledge, please give your email, I can email you my solution.01/03/22