Malek S.

asked • 07/20/18

Dice probability

You have a fair 6 sided die, and a point on a graph at origin (0,0). Tossing the die moves the point accordingly
*if it lands on 6, the point returns to origin
*If it lands on 1,2,3 it moves +1 on the X axis
*If it lands on 4,5 it moves -1 on the X axis.
What is the probability of the point being on the origin after 4 throws?
 
(This is a question on an exam I took with no calculators, so I assume the answer has to be something I could've arrived at through thought and not brute forcing it on a computer.)

2 Answers By Expert Tutors

By:

Paul M.

tutor
My solution is NOT correct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will give it some more thought and respond further later.
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07/21/18

Paul M.

tutor
I now think I have the correct answer (not 100% certain), but I think this is correct.   I certainly could not have gotten it in the framework of a test unless there was no time limit on the test!
 
There are 64 = 1296 equally probable outcomes of 4 tosses with a single die.
 
Of these 216 have a 6 at the last toss, which returns the point to the origin.
 
Of the remaining 1080 outcomes 180 show a 6 at the 3rd toss, which means the point cannot return to the origin.
 
Of the remaining 900 outcomes 150 show a 6 at the first toss, which also means the point cannot return to the origin.
 
Of the 750 remaining outcomes 125 show a 6 at the 2nd toss.  In the last 2 tosses there are 3 ways to get a +1 and 2 ways to get a -1 and 2 permutations, that is 12 ways to get a +1 and a -1 in the last 2 tosses, which causes a return to the origin.  With the 5 ways to get the 1st toss, there are 60 outcomes which cause a return to the origin.
 
Now there are  625 remaining possible outcomes and each of these outcomes has no 6.  In order to return to the origin  2 +'s and 2 -'s need to occur.  There are 4 pairs which cause a -, namely 4,4 4,5 5,4 and 5,5 and these can be placed in the 4 outcome boxes in 4C2 = 6 ways.  There are 9 pairs which cause a +, namely 1,1 1,2 13, 2,1 2,2 2,3 3,1 3,2 and 3,3 and these can be placed in the remaining 2 boxes.  This means there are 4 * 6 * 9 = 216 outcomes which result in a return to the origin.
 
In total then there are 216 + 60 + 216 = 492 outcomes which cause a return to the origin for a probability of 492/1296 = 41/108 = .37963.
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07/22/18

Paul M.

tutor
Still didn't quite get it right...but now I have it and the answer I confirmed independently by a method for which I used a spreadsheet.  I am going to repeat the whole method with the small change which makes the last bit of difference in the result.
 
The are 64 =  1296 equally probable outcomes of 4 tosses witha single die.
 
Of these 216 have a 6 at the last toss, which returns the point to the origin at the end.
 
Of the remaining 1080 outcomes 180 show a 6 at the third toss, which means the point cannot return to the origin at the end.
 
Of the remaining 900 outcomes 150 show a six at the 2nd toss.  In the last 2 tosses there are 3 ways to get a +1 and 2 ways to get a -1 and 2 permutations, that is 12 ways to get a +1 and -1 in the last two tosses which causes a final return to the origin.  With 6 ways to get the first toss, there are 72 outcomes which cause the return to the origin.
 
Of the 750 remaining outcomes 125 show a six at the first toss, which also means there is no terminal return to the origin.
 
Now there are 625 remaining possible outcomes and each of these outcomes contains no 6.  In order to have a return to the origin 2 +'s and 2 -'s need to occur.  There are 4 pairs which cause a -, namely 4,4; 4,5; 5,4 and 5,5 and these can be placed in the 4 outcome boxes in 4C2 = 6 ways.  There are 9 pairs which cause a +, namely 1,2; 1,2; 1,3; 2,1; 2,2; 2,3; 3,1; 3,2 and 3,3 and these can be placed in the remaining 2 boxes.  This means there are 4 * 6 * 9 = 216 outcomes which result in a terminal return to the origin.
 
In total there are 216 +72 + 216 = 504 outcomes which cause a terminal return to the origin for a probability of 50//1296 = 42/108 = .38889.
 
This agrees with the value determined independently on a spreadsheet.  At last, I am pretty sure this is correct!
 
 
 
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07/22/18

Andy C. answered • 07/20/18

Tutor
4.9 (27)

Math/Physics Tutor

Malek S.

Thank you very much! I had arrived at the same conclusion earlier when I tried to answer it again, but wouldn't it be possible for the first two rolls to be 6, and then for the last two rolls to be +1 and -1s? Or would that fit into any of the previous calculations?
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07/22/18

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