i am just curious
is god real? if so, what proof is their? and why do scientist think that mand kind came from apes, when god created everything and everyne?
What you should be asking is, if God is real to you.
Humans can only experience "Reality" subjectively, so it would follow that you have to answer your own question.
Have you experienced God?
If someone reads a description of a lamp to you from a catalogue, is that lamp real to you?
What if that person tells you that they purchased the lamp, or shows you a picture of the lamp?
Some people will believe in "the lamp" if someone tells them about it. Other people need to hold the lamp in their hands and inspect it closely. This is the only way that the lamp becomes real to them.
Ask yourself: When would the lamp become "REAL" to me? Do I need to study the lamp like a scientist, trying to remain objective?
Scientists are searching for answers, as we all are. Scientists search for explanations to how and why things work. How does the universe work? They break the universe into components in their mind, and study those components individually. Some scientists study the universe's components in a more holistic fashion trying to figure out how they interact and work together.
Scientists use data they've collected to create a hypothesis, or a tentative explanation for an observation, phenomenon, or scientific problem. If that hypothesis follows the same rules most of the time it becomes a theory. If that theory can be repeated with the same outcome enough times that theory becomes a law.
So, are the laws that control the "Universe" a cohesive mesh of energy like "the Force" in George Lucas' Star Wars?
Or, is the Universe a giant being of energy somewhat resembling an eagle, emitting tiny "energy spheres" of its consciousness, that in turn gather experience in their own “separate” consciousness. Later, the eagle like energy devours the tiny spheres to rejoin the “main” consciousness. Carlos Castaneda wrote about Yakui Indian tribes that described their experience of "God" or "the Universe" like this.
Most humans believe or experience an anthropomorphic form of God that emerged from the Levantine region surrounding Jerusalem. These are very detailed Jewish, Islamic and Christian descriptions of what "God" or "Allah" is and what he is not.
Remember this always: In the end humans can only experience the universe subjectively.
So, Is God Real?
George Litz ::::
There is some real evidence for the existence of spirits and the afterlife, "Heavens" so to speak.
This is a fulfilling question to get an answer, even if the answer isn't exactly "satisfying" the way a Math answer is for instance. From a Science perspective, it's impossible to judge if a God or any spirits exists or not, because by definition, God is not "physical" and spirits aren't physical either. But not physical, is not the same as, "does not exist". Where does that leave you with your question?
It seems like what you're really after is the origin of the Universe. Thinking logically about the origin, a person will get stuck in a problem: for a God to create the universe, he would have to be there before anything existed, he would have to be there FIRST. If any one entity created everything, what created that entity? And what created that entity, and before that? The problem again, is thinking about God and the Universe completely in PHYSICAL TERMS. But the universe is everything, including the non-physical. What's non-physical: This is where the evidence comes in, more or less. Think of every bright idea you've had, it seems to come out of thin air right? It seems like, your intuition just gets beamed down to you. Ideas have to come from somewhere though, ideas you NEVER would have thought of. Everyone encounters this, there are accounts of great inventors like Nikola Tesla even getting ideas in their dreams, of great inventions. These ideas have to come from somewhere, and that somewhere by definition is "nonphysical".
Stastically, nonphysical items have been shown to exist as well. Statistics and different Subjective (in Quantum Physics, in researching where ideas enter the brain via NeuroScience, etc) studies have been the only real way to see if concepts like God, psychics, spirits, etc, exist. And these Statistics and Subjective studies seem to say that, yes actually an afterlife does infact exist (which implies spirits occupy the afterlife).
As far as evolution and men coming from apes, the commonly held Scientific idea--based on looking at fossil intermediates and archaelogy etc--is that humans and apes are more like brothers, and we both came from a common ancestor that's kind of like our "dad" and looks similar to both an ape and human.
Some ideas to research, go on Wikipedia and search: Akashekic Record
On Youtube, look up "Dr. Quantum Double Slit" this will show how the universe is probabilistic.
And last is Dr. Thomas Campbell's book (you can read it for free on Google Books) explaining in detail some thoughts on NonPhysical Matter Reality
This is obviously a difficult question that has been debated for centuries. God cannot be proven since he is not material, but He can be experienced by people. Experience is obviously a matter of faith and cannot be proven either. Science and God are not always at odds and some strong beleivers in God also believe in evolution. Many scientists believe in what is called Intelligent Design which postulates that the world we live in was created by a mind and not just a forever cycle of big bangs that continually shape the universe. A short response such as this one cannot begin to answer this question. I for one believe in God, but that is because I believe I have expereinced Him. Others may refute my claim based on the fact that it cannot be proven, I respect that, but I still believe. I could reccomend some books to read on the suject if you are interested.
Many people believe that a god is real, but the existence of a god has not been proven.
A theory is a way to explain something. Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory to learn more.
Different people have their own ideas about what's real and what's not. It's interesting to discover why a person believes what he or she does. Is it because of observations? Is it because of experimentation? Did they read something someone else wrote, or did they just make it up?
Answers here will hold a lot of opinions, but when it comes down to you-- you get to decide what you believe. What sources of evidence do you trust? Do you think god is real? Why or why not? Do you think that people could have come from apes? I think it's interesting to look at the evidence.
You might want to check out this book, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blind_Watchmaker
That is a question that Philosophers of great standing have debated for a long, long time, and there is no easy answer.
Evolution is a scientific theory, which basically puts forth the idea that all life on earth evolved over billions of years and that all of that life shares an ultimate common ancestry. Many proponents of this theory point to the Fossil and Geological record which most accept indicates the Earth is over 4.5 Billion years old. According to the Geological and Fossil record the earth has undergone many changes in that time as has the life that has inhabited the Earth during the last 1-2 billion years. Man and Ape are more like cousins having both evolved from a common ancestor, not necessarily man from ape but more accurately in my opinion man and ape from a common source.
Belief in God or a God or Creator or Deity, is a matter of faith. I can no more prove God’s existence than I can prove beyond a doubt he or she does not exist. Having said that, I think one has to ask ones’ self that question and answer it for themselves. Many will try and convince you they have the correct answer whether they got it from a book or from a scientific formula. They do not, nor are it possible to answer the question, there is only the possibility to take a leap of faith and believe or to be skeptical and chose not to believe. Many chose to believe in their own way and accept both science and faith in a “higher power” that created and used the laws of science to his or her own purposes. Still other argue against all science as wrong and just theories and hold up the bible as all the proof that is needed and the source of the answers for all questions .
I recommend first looking at history and the emergence of religion as an organized part of society. Then you may want to look into the beliefs of some non Christian religions, several of which predate Christianity. Finally I would read the bible. A tough read I know, but there are some fantastic life lessons in there and there are some passages that have a decidedly human touch to them. Finally make a decision and judgment for yourself that you are comfortable with and that makes sense to you and helps you cope with the challenges of a sometimes very unfriendly world.
James M. 9/27/2012
All religions are god centered. It is often professed that to know god one must practice faith. If you believe there is a god then the path is often discussed as mono or dualistic. By this I mean that god is either somewhere out there not part of you looking down on us or the other, that god is found within us and all living things. Your faith will be based on this choice of how you see god.
We will find out when this life ends. Ther is no physical proof but plenty of spiritual proof. I want to comment on man from apes. This is NOT what science says and is misquoted so often. Science says apes and Man evoloved alongside each other from a common ancestor NOT man from ape. The evolutionary tree says all plants, animals, fungi, bacteria...everyting can be traced back to simple one celled organisms. We all have common ancestors somewhere on the evolutionary tree. Man FROM apes is never a statement from a true learned scientist.
Perhaps reframing the question a bit will help....
You could spend a month in the bookstore reading countless volumes by various authors arguing everything from "God's" existence to the belief that there is no "God" at all. You can approach this with logic to try and come to some determination yourself but it will be difficult to know "the" answer since no one has any definitive proof...only theories.
BUT...there are many, many people in this world that believe there is something "bigger" than all of us that ties us all together. Some call it "God" while others call it "the universe" and still others call it "the source" and there are many, many more names. Regardless of the name you give it, you have to take your own journey and discover what makes most sense for you as an individual. Faith is not something you can be given; you have to find it for yourself.
So maybe it's not so important whether or not "God" exists as most define "him;" Maybe it's more important to look at existence and realize there is "something" bigger than all of us that ties us together and, if we focused on that commonality, the details become less important than the fact that we are all sharing this existence...together.
Proof can be evidential or analytical. There are good arguments using both to show that God exists. Some of the most significanat ones are the Kalaam Cosmological Argument, the Leibnizian Cosmological Argument, the Teleological Argument, the Axiomatic or Moral Argument, The Ontological Argument. There are others that have been discussed in some form for more than 2000 years in some form or another. These are all part of the field of Natural Theology which argues for God' existence without appealing to Scripture.
Here is a very paraphrased version of the kalaam Cosmological Argument for the existence of God.
This form of the Cosmological Argument says that if 1) All things that begin to exist have a cause, and 2) The universe began to exist, then 3) the universe has a cause. The conclusion is logically guaranteed if 1) and 2) are true. 1) is intuitively obvious but for those who want to deny it, one can simply ask why we the universe is an exception to this rule. 2) is confrimed empirically by the expansion of the universe and the 2nd law of thermodynamics as well as analytically by the impossibility of forming an actually infinite series of temporal moments by successive addition and the impossibility of an actually infinite amount of anything existing. all attempts to model the universe as beginningless turn out to just displace the question of a beginning to another scenario. If the universe had a beginning outside of the natural universe, it must be either an abstract object or a mind. Since abstract objects have no causal power that leaves the beginning of the universe as a non-physical mind that is creative and powerful enough to create all space-time out of nothing.
There are also reasons to believe God exists from direct experience, a defense of the resurrection of Jesus as historical.
As you probably already know and have seen, this is a question that has filled endless volumes for all of recorded history.
I think of all the answers offered here, Matthew provides the simplest answer of all, and to me, the most compelling. Something cannot come from nothing. Everything that exists has a source. The only question is what or who is the source of all creation? The answer to that comes only from a personal spiritual journey. May God guide you in your quest for truth!
To answer your question about apes, check out this website: http://www.onezoom.org/mammals.htm
It shows when different types of animals branched off from other animals (to find humans, zoom in on the bottom right area -> primates -> apes & humans -> great apes
I will only add few things things not yet posted by others:
1. Evolutionary theory does not pose that man decended from apes, but rather that apes and man decended down different genetic lines. Yes, the fossil record shows early hominids to have an appearance similar to modern apes, but to say that man decended from apes is contrary to evolutionary theory.
2. There is an argument in favor of the existence of God based on an analogy by William Paley, known as Paley's Watch. A short excerpt from his book,
Evidences of the Existence and Attributes of the Deity, Collected from the
Appearances of Nature which was published in 1802:
". . . when we come to inspect the watch, we perceive. . . that its several parts are framed and put together for a purpose, e.g. that they are so formed and adjusted as to produce motion, and that motion so regulated as to point out the hour of the day; that if the different parts had been differently shaped from what they are, or placed after any other manner or in any other order than that in which they are placed, either no motion at all would have been carried on in the machine, or none which would have answered the use that is now served by it. . . . the inference we think is inevitable, that the watch must have had a maker -- that there must have existed, at some time and at some place or other, an artificer or artificers who formed it for the purpose which we find it actually to answer, who comprehended its construction and designed its use."
3. While some scientists argue that there is no proof of God, another analogy one might make is the wind. We can't see it, put it in a bottle, etc.. But, we can feel it, hear it, and see its effects. No one argues that the wind doesn't exist.
In religeon, the concept of God was originally created to explain many phenomena that people observe around them. Miraculous events played particularly strong roles, and gradually led up to emergence of many religeous concepts.
In the scientific world, there are debates about who or what God is. A notable possibility is a highly intelligent civilization (Kardashev 5+) that learned to harness enough energy to be able to create new universes and control them. Such civilizations are depicted in some works of science fiction, but are difficult to imagine as existing for real.
Although it is impossible to prove God's existence, the most compelling evidence in favor of God is the accuracy with which our universe is callibrated. If even one constant was different from what it is by one part per quintillion, no complex structures (galaxies, solar systems, planets, life, etc.) would be possible. On the other hand, if the multiverse theory is true with physics constants/laws differing in different universes, the law of large numbers guarantees a universe like ours to eventually be born in which case our universe may not require God to exist.
As God is thought to be omniscient, he is sometimes also mentioned in recreational sciences. In particular, if an algorithm solves a puzzle in the fewest possible number of moves from any start state, we call it God's Algorithm, and the numbers of moves required in the worst case is called God's Number (20 for the standard Rubik's Cube).
There is a lot of good to read on this page, so waste time repeating (less elogantly) what others have written. I just want to point out a couple of things for consideration...
Just as the belief in god (or god's) is religious in nature (faith), the belief that man evolved from anything else is religious in nature. Science is about things that are observable, testable, and measurable. No one has observed, tested, or measured the process of any kind of living thing evolve into a distinctly different kind of living thing, even through observations of many generations.
I know that some people would argue that the evidence is in the fossil record, but that is not indisputable. The only thing that fossile definitively prove is that something died and was buried by water. The age of fossils is debatable (the suspected age is chosen by layer buried in, then radiometric dating method is chosen to match the suspected age). Even when "missing links" are found, there is often dispute of what the skeleton actually is.
The question stated that scientists think that men came from apes. While there are some scientists that think this, not all of them do. At one time, scientists also thought that big rocks fall faster than small rocks. Just because scientists thought that didn't make it true. Evolution is part of a religion, just like believing that God created the Earth in 6 days and later flooded it for 40 days and 40 nights is part of a religion.
After rambling on for too long, I just want to close this by saying that many people today are in a religious and don't realize it. Secular humanism is a religious belief as much as Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, or many other systems. If you think that you don't follow any religion at all, I suggest you look up Secular humanism and see if it is really the faith that you are practicing.
Ex nihilo, nihil fit. "Out of nothing, nothing comes." One can deny that statement, but honesty requires the admission that if there ever was absolute nothingness there would still be absolute nothingness now. Because something exists now, something has always existed necessarily. [Aquinas] Additionally, one can play with words, but regardless, there will always be some sense in which the perpetual existence of something is recognized, even if it's simply something like the law of gravity. The very conditions that made the Big Bang possible can functionally become 'gods'. Therefore, the issue at hand is not whether 'God' exists, but who or what 'He' is.
If you accept this statement, then the issue can be further clarified with the contemporary debate on abortion. Nobody denies that there is a fetus. What divides people is whether or not the fetus is a person. In the same way, few truly deny that there was always something, but whether or not it was a person. Those who are pro-life seek the honor of a baby; likewise, those who are pro-God, seek the honor of the Creator. For some, Philosophy and Science abort God, while for others, like myself, they compel dutiful reverence and awe for Him.
It's good to hear you're thinking about such questions. God bless!
Soli Deo Gloria,
If God isn't real, then why do all groups of people, whether by nation, culture, demographic or religion share common internal laws of right and wrong? The answer is simple...God placed what Christians and those who practice Judaism know as the Ten Commandments on our hearts. Why is it that when a child lies, before he or she is told that it is wrong, in his/her conscience there is a design indicator or to put it simply an "internal warning system" that indicates when he or she does wrong? This goes beyond religion. This comes from an internal design feature made by God Himself.
(Brief) Christian view, according to the Bible (if you're curious ;D)... Many answers to your question in a letter written by Paul to a church in Rome around 50-55 A.D. Check out just the first chapter:
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures) concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.
--Paul was a Jew who converted to Christianity (Acts 9). He followed the Old Covenant, or contract, between Yahweh (YHWH) and the Jews, specifically Abraham (Genesis 13). As indicated above, Jewish prophets spoke on behalf of God, and what they said was recorded as part of the Hebrew Bible, or "holy scriptures" (first 39 books of Bible). According to these scriptures, God not only existed, but was present with them from Creation (Genesis 1-2, written by Moses according to the Bible). Because of the Fall of Man (Genesis 3), sin and death entered the world. In order to abolish these things, God promised to send someone to pay the penalty for man's sin. This is the 'gospel,' or good news, that he speaks of in Romans, that Jesus Christ of Nazareth (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) was made "of the seed of David," as prophesied in the scriptures (meaning his lineage can be traced back to Israel's King David), and "declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead." As the New Testament indicates, Jesus Christ was crucified, then appeared alive to the disciples and others after his death, conquering sin and death (sin=death, so if you do not sin, you conquer both according to the scriptures... Jesus is the only one to have ever done these things on his own). His resurrection is the "sign of Jonah," who was swallowed by a big fish only to escape death three days later, that Jewish leaders were told by Jesus would be God's sign to them of the Messiah.
That is the biblical proof, which many believe can be confirmed through other means such as archaelogy. As to why scientists think mankind came from apes, continue reading the chapter (verse #'s included):
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
--- According to Paul's view, as a result of men not putting their "faith" (moral conviction of the truth) in the gospel of Christ, they consequently have their "foolish heart... darkened," or given over to their "lusts" (desires). Because men became "vain in their imaginations," they thought up things, one being that the "glory of God" is equivalent to a "four-footed beast," such as an ape. "The glory of God," is reflected by men according to the scriptures. Simply put, Paul is arguing that if people do not believe the gospel of Jesus Christ, they will fall further into sin while believing and making up lies.